Comments on: Horse riding/training issue (huntseat)…sorry it’s long?

By: ThumperDoodle

ThumperDoodle — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:37:59 +0000

Are you talking about putting the horse on the bit or actually collecting him. I’m a dressage rider and I know we like to first get our horse long and low, encouraging them to stretch their backs and neck. We work with collection by having a good steady walk, trot, or canter and push, with our seat (not a bobble head) by taking up the reins and asking the horse to get on the bit (face is perpendicular to the ground). We keep encouraging them to move up from behind and into the bit. You have to be careful that they don’t drop behind the bit (pulling head toward chest)
I don’t know if I’m clear or not, but putting a horse "on the bit" is not the same and "collection." I am familiar with collection–shortening of stride with more weight in the high quarters. To get the horse to canter from a walk I simply close my fingers (slight change in pressure on the horse’s mouth,) put weight in my seat, put pressure with the "inside" leg (knee calf, but not noticeable) tip the nose ever so slightly in and the horse canters.

If you think about dressage riders/horses, as they move up in levels there is collection (but not level 1) and eventually you are asking for pirouettes and passage–a horse can’t do them if they haven’t been trained to use their haunches. One way you can tell if your horse is using his hind legs is look at how the horse "tracks." Is the high foot fall (print) in front of where the front hoof print. The more the hindquarters are under them, the larger the gap between front foot fall and hind foot fall (over stepping front print with hind print.) Too many people out here think if their horse’s head and neck are in the correct position (face perpendicular to ground) that their horse is collected. Not so. A horse can "collect" head and neck in front and still have his hind legs way out behind them. Sorry if I didn’t make any sense.
References :

By: Nicole

Nicole — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:12:59 +0000

it sounds like you may have your hands to high my horses do that when i hold mine a little high. i would ask someone else to ride the horse so you can see any movement you want (collection or transitions etc.)
References :

By: snl

snl — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:49:59 +0000

appy’s are NOT AQHAs, aqha means quarter horse. anyways, western horses are trained to ALWAYS be collected, but you should use your legs. don’t haul the horses head up into an Arab collection. you bump the horses head, then ask for the next gait. no offense, but it is your riding, you are not giving her the correct cues, so use your legs to collect her, not your hands

http://www.frontierappaloosa.com/THE_MIRACLE_ONE.JPG
References :
shows AQHA

By: Horse.Featherz

Horse.Featherz — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:06:59 +0000

I am not sure what the head straight up would be on an Appy. Perhaps you are not letting her collect. If this is a quarter horse type, her head is going to be a bit lower than you have been used to. It is just the way these horses are built. So collection might look a little different. This is not to say she can’t lift and round the neck at all or that she just throws her head straight up. If you have been used to Andalusians, Lippezans or some of the larger European breeds, this Appy will take some getting used to.

I would work her in the ground and get some idea of how she goes naturally and how you can collect her. Then work her up and down hills so you can feel what the difference is. It may just be you are passing your lack of confidence to your horse. Just remember to breath and draw your breath all the way to the saddle when you get to feeling less confident. See if this makes a change in her attitude.
This is probably advice you don’t need but just make sure you haven’t forgotten because of your doubts about yourself: Try not to look down at her shoulders. Qhorses have big powerful rear ends and you should be able to tell where the feet are from your own seat.

Happy Trails
HorseFeatherZ
References :

By: zephania666

zephania666 — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:44:59 +0000

If you’ve mostly ridden arabs, saddlebreds, and the like, chances are you are holding your hands too high for an appy. They carry their heads quite a bit lower, and if your hands are in the usual saddle seat position, it’s gonna feel to them like you want them to lift their heads – which is exactly what you’re describing.

I collect for the canter; I’m a lot more relaxed for the trot (some collection, of course). Again, this may be the difference between someone who rides mostly saddleseat and someone who mostly rides huntseat. Even when you rode hunt seat you probably did the more upright huntseat that saddleseat type horses/riders do, just as QH riders tend to do the more WP huntseat, low and loose. Saddleseat horses are expected to be more showy in the trot, which requires more collection. The appy isn’t used to it. I know my QH, when I collect at the walk, immediately thinks "canter!" even though I may just want a collected walk, or a collected trot, or whatever. Likewise, the appy isn’t sure what you want.

Give it some time. The two of you may make a great team, once you figure out how to communicate. It’s not that you’ve lost your abilities, it’s just that your horse doesn’t read the same language your old horse did. It should come fairly quickly, as you learn what the horse can and can’t do and the horse learns to read your slightly different cues.

It’s not you. It’s not the horse. It’s the communication, and you will very quickly get that back. Good luck!
References :